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When most watch collectors talk about the IWC Ingenieur series they think about the handsome Gerald Genta designed Collection SL from 1976 onwards and moving into their modern and sometimes obnoxiously large and technical chronographs. To me IWC’s most important Ingenieur’s were produced 20 years earlier.

I guess many of you know the feeling of falling in love. There is nothing like the tingling feeling and the mixture of anxiety and happiness when you see someone you love, and when I first laid eyes on a vintage IWC Ingenieur ref. 666 – that was how I felt. I know it sounds stupid, but that was it. Watches had been a hobby for a long time, but this watch spoke to me on a level I had not yet experienced. I cannot explain why exactly this model was so interesting to me at that time, or why it made me feel like I did.
Back in 2003 or 2004 I had just started to explore the vintage watch world and I came across this ref. 666. It was too expensive for me at that time but I started to research these older IWC Ingenieur watches.

IWC Ingenieur models

Ref. 666

IWC Ingenieur 3570 866 3233 666

In 1954 the first IWC Ingenieur saw the light of day with the new Cal. 85x movements. It was a pretty modest looking wristwatch, but with the real value on the inside of the case.

These post-war years at the brink of the space age was the era of science. White coats and laboratory’s was the perfect picture of the new age. IWC had for many years been in the forefront of the technical advance of watchmaking with Albert Pellaton running their technical department. So it was only natural to name a family of watches after the rock stars of science, the engineers.

Right after the second world war IWC had made a Pilots watch, the Mark XI, with a manual movement Cal. 89. This movement is known for being super reliable and sturdy. Also this was the first model to have an inner case made of soft iron, to shield the movement from magnetic fields. As you may know, magnetism may interfere with the reliability of the timekeeping properties of a watch.
Taking inspiration from this technical and reliable centre seconds movement, IWC developed the Cal. 852 (no-date) and 8521 (date) in 1953.
Of course all of this was an ingenious marketing strategy. Hailing the technological age with a watch incorporating new technical innovations made for scientists . IWC was branding the watch as “the super time-piece of modern times”.

To me it was probably the sharp dauphine hands and a simple but timeless dial that triggered my affection for the watch at first. Researching the ref. 666 made the connection stronger as I can really appreciate a sober looking watch with technical innovations. It is also a watch that connect a very interesting period of our history to watchmaking and design.

I never got my ref. 666 back then. What I did get for my collection was the then new ref. 3233.

Ref. 3233

IWC Ingenieur 3570 866 3233 666

In 2008 IWC celebrated its 150th anniversary by releasing a Vintage Collection. This collection was really a contemporary reinterpretation of several classic watch models and of course the Ingenieur was one of them. The 3233 kept the dauphine hands and the sober face of the first generation ref.666. Also the case design was taken from the ref. 666.
On the inside IWC put their new in-house Cal. 80111. Here they further developed the values of the early Ingenieur watches with a new shock-absorbing mechanism. Also pressure resistant to 12 bar.
On the 80111 IWC sadly omitted the anti-magnetic soft iron inner case. This feature was kept for other Ingenieur models with the Cal. 80110. What those watches did not have that the ref. 3233 do, is a sapphire glas back where the beauty of the movement can be seen. This would not have been possible with the soft iron inner case. So I guess it was OK.
The only real downside of the ref. 3233 is the size. It is 42 mm and it is thick. Then again, back in 2008 what watch wasn’t?

Ref 866

IWC Ingenieur 3570 866 3233 666

Above you can see the ref 866. I am not going to say much about this one other than it was produced in a couple of series from 1967 to 1976 with a new movement, the cal. 854x. The one on the picture I borrowed from a fellow collector. It probably have newer hands, but according to catalogues they are correct.

Ref. 3570

IWC Ingenieur 3570 866 3233 666
At SIHH 2017 IWC decided to release the ref.3570. Again a new interpretation of the classic IWC Ingenieur. Although IWC claims this model resembles the Ingenieurs of the 1950s, it looks more like the 1970s ref.866 was the inspiration for the design.
The movement on the inside is a Selitta SW 300 built to IWC standards and then modified by the manufacture. This is a robust and reliable movement. The case back is certainly closed, but there is no mentioning of the anti-magnetic properties anywhere. Lacking this feature is no deal braker to me. I mean – who stays in strong magnetic fields these days. What I do find disappointing is that they chose to replace the classic INGENIEUR on the dial with AUTOMATIC.
The good thing about this watch is that the Ingenieur models have gone back to a classic look in a sleek case. Where the ref 3233 was a bit thick and heavy the ref 3570 is thinner and lighter. All in all this watch is a good move by IWC. I love the classic Ingenieur models, and I love the fact that they have gone back to their roots in the whole line of Ingenieur models.

If you want to investigate your own IWC Ingenieur or if you are looking to get one, there is only two online sources of information that I trust – one being MOEB – and the other one being Frizzelweb.

Read more of our articles about IWC Ingenieurs here

And how to build your collection. You can learn the secrets of collecting vintage watches.

Collecting vintage watches is really about emotion. Not all true of course. It is also about money.
I tend to fall in love with objects that I just “need” to own, but as all collectors know, you buy what you can. If I had the money I would definitely get myself a couple of vintage Ferraris. But I don’t.
Life brings heartache, and so does collecting sometimes. You cannot win them all. In that manner collecting truly mimics life. There will be hard times and there will be good times.
And sometimes a little bit of each. As when I was forced to sell a beloved vintage Rolex because of an unexpected bill, and when I had the opportunity to buy that vintage Rolex back after two years.
Still it is the good times that I remember best. As when I found a rare photograph strongly connected to my passion for watches.

Sometimes I find bargains. You know, good watches that are priced ridiculously low. But then again when emotion is involved and I really really want that watch bad. I overpay.
And that is what separates collecting from investing or trading. You pay what you have to, to get that object into your collection. And if you have taste and some knowledge it will always turn out to be a good investment over time. As I tell my wife, the other collectors are crazier than me. There are always someone willing to pay up for a good object.

collecting vintage watches rolex 5513 submariner precomex

Know when to turn your collection around

Someone smarter than me once wrote that “if you are a beginner in collecting vintage watches you have to build your watch collection on what you like, according to your taste and wallet”. I always thought that was a cliché. But suddenly I realised that it’s not. If collecting is truly about emotion, then you need to feel that collection of yours.
So at one point, not so long ago, I terminated my entire collection of watches. I sold out everything. I realised that I had bought watches that other collectors liked, but that I did not really enjoy myself. Of course they were collectable and nice watches. It was a strong and diverse collection and I got a lot of compliments. But the watches did not satisfy me.

This smart guy also wrote that collectors with the very best watches have a focus. One of the nicest collections I have seen is all about vintage diving watches. I also know collectors that only buy Patek Philippe or Omega Speedmasters. It is just amazing how many Speedmasters one man can own.

collecting vintage watches rolex 5513 submariner precomex

Collecting Vintage Watches

My own collection is slowly growing again. And this time with a clear vision. My collecting philosophy is now very simple. Buy what I like, know what I buy, and why. And most importantly, go slow.

In practical life that translates to collecting vintage watches that are as original as possible and buying new watches that speak to me. I like a mixed vintage and new collection as they have different qualities. I try to keep the size down to 42 mm and below, preferably 38-40 mm. And I never buy watches to keep them in the safe. I like to wear my watches for periods of time. A week or two on, and then I move on to the next watch in my collection for a period of time.

I want to start collecting chronographs sometime. I just love a nice chronograph. The engineering of that movement, the look of the dial, the feel of the pushers. Everything with chronographs speak to me as a watch guy.
Unfortunately they are expensive, so at the moment I will buy them only if I come past a good specimen at the right price, but I do not rush it.

When deciding where to go with your own collection I would say you should keep in mind why you would collect. There are plenty of reasons why people collect. Most are emotional, and most of us have the collecting genom. When you figure out the why, you need to figure out the what. What to collect is essential to building a nice and solid collection.
Then you should start doing your research.

Please leave a reply below on why you collect if you already know. It would be a great pleasure to read all the different reasons.

collecting vintage watches rolex 1675 gmt master

Research

Researching and collecting vintage watches are now turning out to be both simpler than ever and more confusing than ever. Online resources have a lot of good information but be ware of forums and know-it-alls who claim to be watch gods.
Personally I have gone back to books, backed by online information. Check our collection of books for sale in the shop.

When buying vintage watches the devil is in the details. And I have two very nice examples to show you. One absolutely original vintage Rolex, and one seemingly original that only a good amount of research will expose. Can you spot the one?

I will tell you about my research for these.
What you see first is a reference 5513 Rolex Submariner from 1977, and the second one is a reference 1675 GMT Master from 1968. Both with correct serial numbers, case back stamps and movements. They both have beautiful matching patina on hands and dial.

 

collecting vintage watches rolex 5513 submariner precomex

collecting vintage watches rolex 1675 gmt master

Most would stop here

Let’s go back to the dials and hands, and it is here you find the crux that separates the two watches.
The 1977 ref 5513 with serial in the 5.0 mil, as on this one, a Mk1 Maxi Dial or Pre Comex dial is correct. The watch you see above has the very rare Pre Comex dial.

A 1968 GMT Master ref 1675 would have Mk1 dial, a “Long E” dial.

According to trustworthy sources Rolex started to produce GMT Master in mid 1968 that had a new larger GMT hand.
So suddenly it is not known whether this particular watch would have had the new handset or the old one.
There is one more detail that says it might have had a small GMT hand back in 1968.

The dial

Researching the GMT Master is difficult. The dial variations are many and the price range on the watch is much dictated by the dial and the matching hands. You see, collectors find the dial to bee key when collecting vintage watches in general, but when collecting Rolex the dial is essential.

A 1968 would have had a Mk1 dial. This 1675 watch does not have a Mk1 dial, and since the patination matches, this is an indication of a replacement of both hands and dial at one time.
Some sources say that it was popular amongst early GMT Master owners to upgrade their old watch to a new look with the large GMT hand.
After extensive research into dial variations I found a match for the dial. It is an early tritium replacement dial, or service dial if you will.

My guess is that the original owner of this watch changed both watch and hands back in the early 1970s to get the new and modern look to his older watch.

I still would buy both watches. The 1675 would be better with the original dial, but this one with the matching patina is still a great buy.
Boxes and papers is rare to find on these old watches, and brings the price up to astronomical figures. You got to love it!

Please download my checklist for buying and collecting vintage watches so that you can also get your dream watch without getting screwed.